Neuner

Guns in Capture Zone

5 posts in this topic

Ahoi, I've noticed that if there are landbased guns in the capture zone, they would gain control of the zone for your team, when there is no ship inside the zone.

That would make it hard for single SS to gain control, and easy for BB to avoid the SS if the guns are on BB-Team.

I think it's a bug and not a feature...

 

edit: see the pic with all ships out of control zone, but the BB will capture the zone by the land-guns and the SS and DD will loose that battle if they chase the BB

Screenshot_20171220-081549.jpg

Edited by Neuner
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amazing to see guns in capture zone survive this late in the battle! It rarely takes more than 2 minutes for all enemy and ally guns located anywhere near center to be destroyed in my experience.

I sincerely hope that this is an intentional feature and not a bug. First, it just makes basic logical sense. Fixed, land-based assets represent their side’s control of a given area; possession established to a degree that’s at least equal, if not greater than a ship’s presence does. Historically, for example, driving back the Japanese fleet was only the first step. No area was secure until the arduous task of eliminating all entrenched land forces on every island was finished. Only after Allies had cleared the enemy sea, air, and land forces was victory complete 

Second, the idea offers an interesting strategic dimension. If one side can protect these fairly vulnerable positions for long enough, they gain an advantage in the capture stage. To exploit or deny the enemy this benefit requires field awareness and tactical planning, hence enriching the game.

Finally, it’s a good idea from a gameplay perspective. True, a lone sub could potentially find achieving capture victory almost impossible. Yet even one stealthy sub also has a significantly enhanced ability to frustrate enemy capture attempts. Like carriers, subs enjoy unique advantages over conventional ships, but specialized power has a price. Lack of strong surface attack is part of the cost for subs, and a vital aspect of game balance. Sometimes a key weakness means defeat, other times a key strength brings victory; all part of the challenge. Logically, if guns shouldn’t be allowed to capture because a sub’s weak surface attack can’t easily destroy them, then subs—which are completely immune to both ship and land guns when submerged—shouldn’t be able to capture until they surface.

I can’t think of any prior issue on which I’ve disagreed with the distinguished Neuner. In this case, however, I do hope he’s mistaken. The possibility of land guns contributing to a capture victory is fascinating to me, even if it’s highly unlikely to happen and I’ll probably never even see it firsthand. In my most humble opinion, the concept makes logical sense, adds strategic nuance, offers another potential reward for smart, tactical captains, and its minimal impact on game balance and enjoyment is positive overall.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are many good points in your logical arguments. Thinking twice, maybe you are right and team should just have a better awareness...

👍🏻

However it's frustrating when you're in the sub and have to come for the capture zone (that was the reason why they where developed) in second half of the battle, but the enemy has all possibilities to stay well away from you. Zone was build to bring all enemies closer together and not only those without land-guns. 😣

(btw KM SS4 has no Surface Arms at all)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I appreciate the kind words and further consideration. Ironically, just before reading your original post, I had been in an Online Great Battle where only my sub and an enemy carrier remained at endgame. The carrier had—as is the often utilized strategy—retreated to safety in the corner with its two intact heavy guns, and I only had about 1/3 oxygen left. Because carrier-based aircraft squadrons count as an occupying force for capture victory purposes, I couldn’t force the actual ship to come into range. There wasn’t enough time for me to retreat, surface, replenish oxygen, submerge, then return to and sink the carrier. So I couldn’t get to it without exhausting oxygen and getting killed by heavy guns and/or torp bombers when forced to surface; couldn’t achieve capture victory because its squadrons only needed to pop in to restart the clock; and ultimately had no viable route to victory. I could only try a suicide run or wait it out in stalemate until time expired. I defaulted to the latter and lost the battle.

My point in sharing that story is that there are numerous scenarios wherein a capture victory is frustrated due to ships’ limitations &/or abilities. Among them, I’d say that an aircraft squadron counting as a capture occupier (thus allowing a single remaining ship to hide in a corner) is far more illogical and less true to the spirit/intent of the capture victory concept than is capture prevented or achieved by land assets. The scenario I encountered (for neither the first nor the last time) is a lot more likely & less appropriate in my opinion, yet I accept it as an unfortunate necessity of the delicate game balance formula. So, although I very much empathize with the irritation of fighting a long, close battle only to find that a technicality precludes any chance of an otherwise achievable victory; those occasional losses seem to me a reasonable price for the many other times when I’ve won because my sub could do things the remaining enemy couldn’t. Perhaps if it were more common, or more egregious, I’d feel differently. 

 

I am curious about what KM sub you were referring to... you wrote KM ss4, obviously a typo, but I’m not sure which one you meant. I only have an ss55 so far, personally, so it’s all I know. Although it lacks any main or secondary gun, it has an AAW listed in stats as doing a whopping 15 damage. If auto gun setting would is on, when my ss is surfaced that weapon shoots at any surface target in range (although hilariously, I’ve never seen it shoot an aircraft), doing negligible damage. Its only practical use IMO is to allow my official participation (& claim rewards) in quick battles when I hadn’t had a chance to really hit anything. Still, it’s technically a surface weapon, and theoretically could destroy any surface target, given enough time. Every other KM sub’s stat sheet also show AAW, with increasing but still minimal damage. It seems unlikely that only the lowest level KM sub’s AAW is able to hit normal surface targets, so again, I’m very curious what you meant. Perhaps, if you don’t have Auto Gun “on” in settings, you’ve never seen the AAW firing at ships or land guns. That explanation would make sense, since there’s no way to manually target aircraft or anything else with the AAW in a sub.

 

Alright, I’ve once again written WAY too much about a fairly obscure topic. Thanks again for your time and patience, Gentle Reader!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think best we could do is spread and share these stories, so that all Captains would see the need of destroying some Land-guns.

 

..it wasn't a typo writing SS4 I meant the fourth SS you could build at level 92. The first three have those auto secondaries but the fourth lack any other weapons than torps. It's a great sub for sure, but in some battles I've been only too slow and did the scouting for long range ships and couldn't get a point. damn...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now