While I'm well into strategy and realism, I believe a torp/shell load cap is for a different more realism oriented game. Here we have 5-10 min battles in a game "balanced" for a quick, funny and easy to play game. Having a vessel return to base for reload would most likely mean it's the only one left on its side when ready to rejoin (or time is up). A more detailed damage control is probably easier to implement without taking something out of the game while adding some degree of realism, tactics and disadvantage for a damaged ship (currently a ready to sink vessel has exactly the same firepower as a full health one). For example: radar out, reduced manoeuvrability, reduced operational guns in turret, turret unable to rotate etc.

Every nation has a DD50 (US the Timmerman, IJN Shimakaze). check So, you are now lv 50 with 1 mil steel and Shimakaze ?!? threads for more into DD50s

Nice, you kept the BB safe from subs, blinded enemy BBs so yours could do its job and won the battle. Your contribution to the battle is much greater that what the 12120 attack says. Do you need the reward steel more that the crew xp and satisfaction of victory?

Further than what Davmak said I wrote the "Unofficial battle tips" a while back. That is my tactics guide for a GB or WoF and generally my fleets tactics. Hope it helps

Steel bonus and Admiral xp are. Crew xp only if you lose the battle, in victory crew gets 15 (or more if premium account) regardless of damage/ships sunk - and you have to stay in until battle ends to get them.

I partly agree agree with you there. DDs used to be prime SS hunters, now not that much. I don't find it wrong that a heavier bigger ship will wipe them out without even trying - when I play the DD50 with almost double the hull of DD1/3 I don't even try to get a CA/BB in torp range even with extra speed. Doesn't end there... You will witness fights of 2-3 BBs vs 1 and the 1 destroying the others just because it's a 120 with veteran crew. a higher level player will always field something more powerful than you, if he couldn't he would have left the game long ago.

Keep doing that (including avoiding pointing straight to/away from them). It all comes down to crew skill now - I suffered a lot from Pensas trying to get some experience on my Gneisenau/Bismark and Scharnhorst... (mind you Scharnhorst is a lvl 80 BB and will still get destroyed by a vet Pensa at 1 star). Because of that, put a Pensa within my range and it's like waving a red flag at me.

I see it the truth somewhere in between. Davmak is right on the BB vs DD part. a BB can and will take out a DD in max range if the BB manual aims correctly and the DD doesn't turn so it's totally on the skill that one. for the DD vs SS now... things used to be right but now DDs are not the sub hunters they used to be - and that's from a sub player who discovered that he can pretty much take some DD torps or hedgehogs rather than lose the big fat target. DD/CL torps should be as powerful as SS torps so that DDs can do their job

If the devs give up this useless complexity, revert to leveling the crew members with oil (or nothing, getting the required crew experience is already hard enough - just display a msg like "congrats your radio officer is now veteran and can send 100 words/min over morse code") and concentrate on fixing the actual gameplay everyone will be happier.

Agree with both. Who says a GB has to be 10v10 (or similar)? if fewer players are available smaller battles are ok. If too few then some AI ships could be added. but AI has to invest on the I part somewhat. I suggest 5v5 GBs are ok, smaller than that AI ships can be included. ^ one of the strengths of the game.

I guess this is the way to go.

I'd say revert to leveling crew with oil. If crew point rewards are increased then mastering the crews will become easier and quite common. Rolling back features has been done, time for another roll back

Other uses: - Chase and kill DDs and other CLs to clear path for / assist ally subs. - Chase and kill DDs and other CLs so allied BBs and CAs can stay focused on the big targets - Illuminate and/or track SSs so ally CAs and BBs can avoid and CVs can torpedo them - Hunt enemy CVs - While not as powerful vs BBs/CAs anymore can add damage, just need to be played more carefully and at max range to avoid getting hit (Same applies to all gun only CLs and partially for weaker CAs as well)

At gun upgrade 2 It has better hull, more damage and equal range compared to Bismark (lvl 70) with gun upgrade 3 (haven't seen it in battle yet but seems smaller size as well). According to post above and patch 3.5.0 announcement notes on facebook is available from level 1 As a side note they should rename it to Lorraine as it seems to be the only ship of the class that had the midship turret removed (and thus 4 main gun turrets like the game battleship and not 5 as the other ships of her class)

Thanks, didn't know that. Seems to be unsuccessful German attempts to mount missiles on subs, a successful propaganda to divert US resources to a non-existing threat and some actual tests by US after the war to mount JB-2 missiles (V-1 copies) on Balao submarines

Where did you find that? was it built, planned or just postwar fantasy of someone? While cool as a concept a ballistic missile would not be very useful in naval combat.

Partly agree except for the auto fire part - I can't imagine fighting in a DD or CL without auto-fire. Unfortunately I don't see the repair, smoke and master crews disallowed in hardcore combat as the game is there to make money for the developers and the developers want us to spend gold. Friendly fire should be standard for wof. in great battle there is no control over who's participating and Team Killing was common when friendly fire was damaging (first torps were neutered and quite recently gunfire). The game was more tactical then as you had to be careful with torps and stop firing guns when a friendly ship went too close to an enemy.

Small changes, big difference. Surely they should

Tired of, and bothered to see ships charge blindly in combat I start this thread for discussion: Note1: classes are not definite, Light and fast CAs with short main gun range may fit better in the CL & DD category. CL & DD is a very mixed basket with different individual roles - a different thread is required for their roles in battle to be further analysed. Mogami (1944) may play the CV role, CA role or a mix of both depending on setup, battle phase and conditions. Note2: Phases are not clearly distinguished and lacking fleet communication captains should observe field and act accordingly. 1st phase: Opening Goal of 1st phase is to setup battle line CVs: Launch fighters to establish air superiority. Stay behind main fleet CAs & BBs: Group together forming a battle line, launch scouts to reveal enemy CLs & DDs: Form a loose group in front, but close to main battle group of CAs and BBs. Don't cut across bows, use superior speed to pass clearly ahead or turn around the stern. SSs: charge ahead independently towards enemy's big units. dive if needed to cross path with others. 2nd phase: First contacts Goal of second phase is to manoeuvre into an advantageous position CVs: Keep skies clear of enemy planes, If no enemy fighters in the air try to get some damage on enemy capital ships and break their line. Change positions often, keep close but behind main fleet. CAs & BBs : fire at enemy ships as they come in range. If strong ships in range gang them, if only smaller pick them of individually. Manual aim is a must in extreme ranges. Surfaced subs are a priority. CLs & DDs : avoid stronger ships, keep distance, increase speed, manoeuvre, whatever it takes to make them miss. Move to block path to enemy subs. If manual AA is available keep close to friendly main battle group and shoot down enemy planes. Gang up to kill charging enemy DDs and CLs SSs: Try to bypass enemy small ships, concentrate on the big ones. Chance kills of DDs and CLs are welcome but risky. Engage enemy subs if you feel confident, diverting them from your battle line is equally important. 3rd phase: Battle is joined Goal of third phase is to gain advantage by breaking up and overwhelming the enemy fleet. CVs: Keep skies clear of enemy planes, If no enemy fighters in the air try to get some damage on enemy capital ships and break their line (killing enemy scouts is a priority). keep an eye on enemy subs. CAs & BBs : Work as concise group, once enemy capital ships are in range pick them off one by one. Switch your target to most heavily damaged enemy in range (no absolute rule use discretion). Target is to reduce enemy numbers as fast as possible (damaged ships have exactly the same firepower as when full health). When targeted move to extreme range - make enemy miss their shots while your allies fight closer. If not targeted move closer to increase hit rate and relieve damaged allies. Keeping the enemy switching targets keeps more friendly ships alive - change positions inside your group, but don't break away. CAs out of range to enemy capital ships pick off smaller ships in range, support your CLs and DDs. CLs & DDs : 1st priority: actively chase enemy SSs, provide AA cover to BBs, if enemy CV in battle try to move round enemy battle line and chase it 2nd priority: Stay alive, harass enemy battle line, force them to manoeuvre by firing torpedoes, anything it takes to give your big gun pals the upper hand. SSs: chase the big targets, keep an eye on oxygen levels. 4th phase: Closing Goal of forth phase is to finish the battle after a side has a definite advantage. CVs: Scout out surviving enemies, kill them. Move closer to reduce planes turnaround time. Other ships: move in and sweep up scattered surviving enemies. Keep within gun range of enemy submerged subs, they'll have to surface for oxygen. Ships with sonar shall keep them always visible. TL;DR: Every ship has it's role in the fleet, act on it, work as a team, don't charge in blindly

I think, (please someone correct me if I'm wrong) that the premium CL18s haven't always been so OP, just for a couple of months. Before that I remember to be able to cripple them with a good shot from my lvl 50 BB (after which they had lost their speed and were sitting ducks) and their guns wouldn't hit a BB harder than it was repaired. Even then their small size and DD speed made them much stronger than their class (and cost and level) suggests. In any case I don't think anyone enjoys chasing around a small ship for 10 mins.

Many many many thanks for the effort. Fantastic job. Great improvement over the (not updated for a long time) ship trees. Thanks Mimoto. If the premium CL18s had their gun's power reduced to 10-20% above the normal CL18 and their size increased to be just smaller (as they only have 2 turrets) they would still be worthy as CLs and competitive in their role. But having CLs able to fight out of their league and purpose is unbalancing to the game. Done whimpering for today.

Ok, so a month and a half passed since I got the Bismark, now the question is Scharnhorst setup. From what I see now the most likely is 3 main gun, 3 armour and 2 engine or 3 main gun, 2 armour and 3 engine. What are your experiences/suggestions? speed or torpedo bulge? any other setups?

As a game with international players it should be sensitive to all cultures. Some places you may be free to form a nazi rally complete with flags and uniforms, in other places it is illegal and punishable by law. everywhere it is offending and bad taste. I like my games free of politics, racism, sexism and general hatred. There are forums where these can be freely expressed, I don't think this is or should be one. I will report as well all such provocative players.

Erm... because it's a game? To that you can add: All ships same speed for their category for example Nelson (23kn historically), King George (28kn historically), Hood (32kn historically) have the same speed in game. Also Hood was technically a battlecruiser, not a battleship. Similar for US BBs: from the 21kn of the Colorado to the 33 of Iowas all are same in game. Also many ships in the game were never built at all and some only exist in this game (gold CL18s for example) Almost forgot the WWII subs that go 30kn+ underwater and 35+ on the surface.... figures that modern subs are proud of (UW) or cant even reach (surface). Also the Timmerman was a modified Gearing so why does have different armament/health etc. when only the engine/drive gear was altered? ok, rant finished. sorry.

Yes they played it beautifully and only did what they could to survive. Point is though that CLs could not only stand their ground versus BBs, but they managed respectable damage too. Taking a full broadside and not getting crippled (>50% damage) is not on par with their own class, considering most other CLs would be outright destroyed. Even when some hits were made these had detrimental effect - I can recall 500-1000 damage done when a shell happened to score a hit. In real life guns were limited in range by the targeting systems and spotting ranges, not so much from shell range. for example, Hood fired at Bismark at 26km, Bismark hit Hood at 14km range. Bismark's guns had an effective range of 36km, Hood's 30km and Prince of Wales' 33km. Later during the chase Bismark was also spotted at 23km range, again no hits until range closed down. In Leyte Gulf West Virginia hit Yamashiro at 20km range. The secondary gun effective ranges were from 15 to 20+ km (with 4" in the lower end and 6" to the higher) so in reality secondary guns could be (and most certainly had been) used in naval battles at the more or less same ranges as the big guns. Source of data: wikipedia (I know it's not the most reliable source, but it's handy)