Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
baldrick

Sub hunting

7 posts in this topic

From some DD vs SS duels we tried (all veteran crews) it seems the SS always comes on top.

I'd like to see the sub-hunting abilities of the small ships beefed up a bit (stronger torps and hedgehogs and/or faster reload) so that the sub-hunting ability is strengthened.

That way DDs and CLs are more useful in a fleet and ultimately the relative strengths are better balanced. Right now it seems that the Submarine is king of the fleet (except for the almost indestructible BB120s).

Note: this suggestion comes from a primarily sub player.

Any thoughts?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I've played SS one maybe聽two times,聽so I might share my thoughts as well ...

One on one DD vs SS the DDs chances aren't that bad if the ship is fast and the captain skilled enough. We should differ between online battles and WoF, because of the teamplay.

In online battles where everybody just seems the need of some dmg-points (newbies rushing forwards, grinders as well) DD often won't have the endurance / patience to hunt subs. And the SS could avoid getting in trouble too much.

In WoF on the other hand, when some captains have nothing else to do than making subs life hard, while they might even not sink them, they could bind them and make them wasting air, so the SS might be useless until they have to submerge and are easy pray.

So imho there's no need for buffing DD, even if that means I wouldn't get the daily task done to sink SS in DD/CL.

Edited by Neuner
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I stand by my opinion. Purpose of the DD/CL is fleet support in AAW and Sub hunting. As it is now the hedgehogs and torps are weak enough so a good sub can afford to take a couple of hits in order not to miss its high value target and then deal with the threat. In my view a sub vs sub-hunter battle should be 90% in favour of the hunter.

Having equal torps to SS/torp planes and stronger HHs will give the small ships a nice (and fair and more realistic) punch and make them again relevant in a fleet.

Only problem with much stronger CL torps will be overpowering the Kitakami... (and Emden to a smaller degree) but if their torp range was also reduced to SS standards, shouldn't be much of an issue.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whenever you change some abilities it's like聽Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock聽and you would have to change all of them...

Well maybe adding the BB120 was a first step of that cycle. Now the CV got better, next might be SS and then DD of course. ...And don't forget that enhancing DD will make CA to be more powerful as well 馃檲

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just saying that paper wins scissors in that case. I don't see how CAs will be affected if DD/CLs will be enhanced by strengthening their torps/HHs.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Below is part (most) of a private discussion I had with Neuner on the subject:

Neuner

Replied: Friday at 08:23 PM 路 Report

.... do you really think, that DD and SS should be somewhat even? I think the hunter (DD) should not be able to fight one SS on his own.

I served on a sub-hunter myself in the navy, and those use two helicopters to be anything of use.

So in my opinion the chances should be even if there's two DD on one SS.

So SS survivability chance could be:

1DD vs 1SS聽 90%

2DD vs 1SS 50%

3DD vs 1SS 10%

baldrick

Replied: 6 hours ago 路 Report

Hmm... yes and no.

Survivability is one thing, being able to press on and complete objectives while having a sub-hunter over you another.

The real life parallel is that the sub would go deep and silent and hope for the best. In addition I believe the two helicopters were used primarily to detect/locate the subs - and once located the ship would obliterate it.

My suggestion is to give the DD/CL a reason to be in a (master GB) fleet. As it is now their usefulness is limited in the detection of subs and AAW, as sub-hunters they under-perform.

Please note that I only recommend a small nudge to make small ships more useful in a fleet - not a complete overhaul of the battle system. It just feels more natural for a sub to see a sub hunter and think "shit.. run, hide, change of objectives that road is closed" rather than "cool, some extra kill is coming this way".

Neuner

Replied: 5 hours ago 路 Report

Helicopters are used for a better detection and engaging the sub with torps as well.

For online GB One free with you, most DD are nothing but extra kills.

In WoF where there are the more experienced players (well and all know of Nfkm addiction to subs) we often face some ASW-ships which are able to bind an SS until the battles done or oxy runs low...

....

So more power to the torps would be a bad decision. Maybe a faster reload for DD would do.

馃But not too fast, so that they wont become a deadly enemy for CL and CA in normal battles...

baldrick

Replied: 5 hours ago 路 Report

聽聽聽 5 hours ago, Neuner said:聽聽聽

聽聽聽 we often face some ASW-ships which are able to bind an SS until the battles done or oxy runs low...聽聽聽

nice, as should be. The reason I started the thread (and our discussion) is that a sub can disregard damage taken by a DD in order to achieve an objective. I realised I was picking up the habit of not avoiding tops/HHs from DDs in order to not lose my primary objective - and often was successful in sinking/crippling a BB and then with still >50% life left deal with the DD that was chasing me.

In my view (while satisfactory when done) this is not good for the game overall and should be fixed.

PS. that was with the IX D2, cant wait to get some stars on the XXI

Neuner

Replied: 5 hours ago 路 Report

You are right, while running on your prime target the biggest threat is another SS and not the ASW ships.

And with Master-Repair on SS4 you could even take some torps of SS in a face-to-face combat if that would bring you in the position to sink the enemy. Take the dagger, to place your sword...

Edited by baldrick
Edit: removed several blank rows
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for all the typos and my bad English. If I would have known we will share it, I would have tried to do better 馃檲

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0